Hate Mail: Mormon Email

I would like to say that I feel like you guys are feeling threatened by
our growing church. If you are attacking our church then you are
feeling threatened. How can you guys say things about our church
when your church has more problems than ours. Not celebrating Christ's
Birthday is not right and you should know that. We don't slander your
church then why are you doing it to ours? I find this 4mormons web site
very offensive. all these people who left our church obviously did not
have a strong testimony of Christ. And when you say we attack the bible
how do we do that? We preach from the bible as much as any other
religion. We live the ten commandments, we are good law abiding
citizens, we don't tear down other religions. I think it is a matter of
feeling threatened. Do you truly think that your church is Christ's
church?

(My Response)

Greetings Sylvan,

Nah, we don't feel threatened, we know that God is sovereign, and no matter
what heretical teaching pops up, it isn't out of His control or
Sovereign will. But in another sense, Mormonism is a threat, as Paul
declared all false Gospels to be a threat to the real one. False Gospels
are also a threat to the souls of men. But we're not threatened by your
growing church. Christ prophesied that men would be lead away because
of their itching ears. Every time in the history of the Christian
church, false teachers rise up and take a percentage with them. It
first started with satan, and has continued to do so. We're not
attacking your church arbitrarily. We're defending the true Gospel as
Scripture tells us to do so. But nonetheless, you must feel threatened
by our ministry, otherwise you wouldn't be attacking it. See how easy
inconsistency can be pointed out? Problems in the church doesn't
invalidate it. Unless you mean doctrinal problems. You don't slander
our church? First off, how are we slandering your church? We're just
saying that it is a false religion and demonstrating how it is. If
that's slander then I don't know what isn't. We're not claiming
anything that's knowably false and just trying to impugn you
unjustly (that's the definition of slander fyi, this is also called
libel). Of course you find our 4witness sight offensive, why wouldn't
you? It tries to demonstrate that that which you hold so dearly, your
worldview, is errant. This isn't meant for mere kicks and giggles so
that we can all have a merry time as we jolly prance our way to death.
We take eternality VERY seriously. There are consequences to what we
believe or don't believe, you know that. Let me ask you this, would you
like to spend all of eternity in hell because of what someone has
ignorantly mislead you with? All the testimonies you see...its not that
they had a weak testimony, its that they had been deceived by the
deceitfulness of their own hearts.

Pro 28:26  He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
       But he who walks wisely will be delivered.
Jer 17:9  "The heart is more deceitful than all else
       And is desperately sick;
       Who can understand it?

Your church attacks the Bible: check out your own Article 8: We believe the
Bible insofar as it is correctly translated. Mormons use this to sluff
off whatever contradicts their beliefs. So the LDS church attacks its
reliability. You follow the ten commandments? Let me ask you then, how
many times have you lied? have you ever stolen anything, irrelevant of its
value? Have you ever wanted something that is not yours? have you ever
murdered? (Jesus said if you hate someone, you have committed murder in
your heart) Have you ever committed adultery? (Jesus said, you have
heard it said of old you shall not commit adultery but I say to you
that anyone who has lusted has committed adultery already in his own
heart). If you have done any of these, the Bible says that if you fail
in just one element of the law you fail in it all. Let me ask you this,
when you die and are standing before the judgment seat of God, will
you be found innocent or guilty? Bible also states that any liar will
have their place in the lake of fire. And that any adulterer,
fornicator, thief... will have their place in hell. So based on this,
will you go to heaven or hell? Your church doesn't tear down other
religions? Just by the mere fact that you claim to be the true
church excludes all other churches from being true, you are just
tearing other religions down implicitly. Do I truly think that my
church is Christ's church? YOU BETTER BELIEVE I DO. It is holy,
beautiful, and precious in God's sight. It is being sanctified day by
day for God's honor and glory, as a bride set apart for Christ. Perfect
and spotless.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Mark II

(Further Correspondence: by Sylvan)

And
you think your church is the right one? Its not a world view. Do you
honestly think God answers your prayers? Have you had personal
experience of that? Do you even pray to him? I have faith that my
church is the church of God. The whole thing about our members being
burdened down with callings, that's false, no one is obligated to do a
certain calling. It is through our own will. Let me ask you, do you
think Paul says in the scriptures that your church is the right one.
No, it doesn't say any church is right, I would rather be part of a
church who at least professes to be right than a church who says they
are the closest to the church Christ established, but not quit the
same. Did you know through history that many different versions of the
bible have been published? And through history it has been modernized
and tweaked or changed. That's what we mean about as far as it is
translated correctly. How do you know that your church doesn't teach
false doctrines. You make it seem like following your heart in the
decisions you make is a sin. I'd rather fallow my heart in finding
truth than believe every wind of doctrine that comes my way. The
Scripture in proverbs you gave me I think means that he who thinks he
doesn't need God is a fool and he relies on the flesh for all the
decisions he makes is a fool. And a quick question. Are your ministers
paid?

(My Response)

Yes, we think our church is the right
one, is that so hard to believe? Do you even know what the term
"worldview" means? Yes God answers our prayers. And OH YES we do pray,
every day. You may have faith in your church, we don't deny that. We're
just saying that its not a saving faith because you've placed your
faith in something that cannot save you. Faith is only as good as the
object in which it is placed. Does Paul say that our church is the
right one? We believe that our church is inline with the Biblical model
if that answers your question. Whether a church professes to be the
right one is really irrelevant. Its whether that's true or not, and
that comes from studying the Bible, not what you feel. Did I know that
there are many different versions of the Bible in print? Yes, I did. So
what? You didn't deal with what I said. That being that LDS take the 8th
Article and use it to trump the Bible. I know what the Article says, I'm
objecting to how it is used. We know our church doesn't teach false
doctrines because we place the same amount of scrutiny to our own
churches as we do yours. We place all propositions under the scope of
Scripture. We're not saying that following your heart is a sin, we're
saying that Scripture says that its foolish, and that its not a way to
validate truth propositions. Following your heart will lead you to
following every wind of Doctrine. Let me ask you this, how do you know
your heart isn't lying to you, since the Bible says that its evil. I
didn't just give you a Scripture from Proverbs only. You should post
the context of the passage and demonstrate how you arrived at your
conclusions. And focus on "the heart is deceitfully wicked above all
else". The Bible says that we're to test all things to the Bible, and
that's how we'd know if its true or not.
Not to pray about it.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Mark II

(Separate Email from Sylvan)

Have you ever heard of the atonement of Christ? He suffered for us
in the Garden of Eden. If we fall short He is there to pick us up.
If we can stand before God at the judgment day and honestly say we
have done our best Christ will take our lashings for the things we
have done wrong in life. No one is perfect, you know that, then why
are you saying you are perfect. by the way it sounds you don't
believe in the atonement of Christ. The way you sound you are putting
yourself above others who have weaknesses. You think you obey the
ten commandments? Have you looked deeply into them not by just what
they say? I believe Christ to be my savior and mediator. I am not
perfect but I will try my best to do what he wants me to do in this
world before he come again.

(My Response)


Thanks for not answering my questions. I do believe in the atonement of
Christ. But its not the same as what you believe. Are you serious, can
you PLEASE demonstrate how I was claiming to be perfect? I never ever
ever claimed that. You completely missed the point of my questions.
What I am saying is that no matter how hard you try, you'll never make
it. You believe that you do your best and Christ does the rest. Paul
said that its either all of Christ or its all of you, not both. And if
it is all of you, then you're in big trouble, because you've failed.
Paul said, if it is by works then it is no longer then by grace. Your
God is only an exalted sinful man, as well as Jesus. Or is Jesus more
righteous than your god? The Bible says that all those who are guilty
of sin must die. How can your god pass a perfectly just and righteous
judgment upon sinners when he himself is guilty? How can a sinner
atone perfectly for another sinner? When the lamb is blemished, it is
unacceptable to the Father and worthy of death in the Old Testament.
How do you correlate the Old Testament and New Testament's teaching of
atonement with what you believe? And by the way, I'm a Calvinist, and I
believe in Total Depravity, hence I would never claim to be perfect.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Mark II

Hate Mail: From a Mormon

Trying to disprove truth is a really tough job so why even bother.  Many have tried
and ALL have failed.  Apostates never really had a testimony so this makes them a
very bad source for info.  Advice:  Save your time, money and effort because what
you seek ain't gonna happen.     PS The Book of Mormon Jesus is the same one that is
in the Bible and you won't be able to change that either so my advice is to repent
and come back to the real Church of Jesus Christ before it becomes to late.

Jeddy Tranquill

(My Response)

Greetings, Thanks for the email. None of us have ever been Mormons. God
saved us by His redeeming Grace, as He saw fit. He then burdened us for
you Mormons. Actually, refuting Mormonism is easy. Its dealing with the
people that is a tough job (ie: your email). We bother, because we deeply
care for the souls of the lost, plus, Christ commanded us to: Jude 3-4; 1
Peter 3:15; etc. If you don't see it, then that's fine, God is sovereign,
He is not weak, He is mighty to save. His will will be done, not ours. The
God of the Bible is much greater and magnificent than the mere puny
"exalted" man of Mormonism. The God of the Bible is Triune, the god of the
book of Mormon is modalistic, which is even different then the god of the
D&C. Even then, the Gospel of Mormonism is radically different then the
Bible, so even on that basis, we reject it. So defend your faith and come
up with something other than ad hominem, we've heard it all before.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Mark II

We fritter away days, weeks, months! ~J. R. Miller, "The Sacredness of Opportunity"

"Redeeming the time, because the days are evil." Ephesians 5:16

"Gather up the fragments that are left over. Let nothing be wasted!" John 6:12

"Time is short!" 1 Corinthians 7:29

Time is made up of golden minutes--not one of which we should allow to be wasted! The Master said that for every idle word that men speak--they must give account. This can be no less true of idle minutes or hours.

Most of us live as if we had a thousand years to stay here in this world! We loiter away the golden hours of our little days--as if the days were never to end! We do not see how swiftly the sun is whirling toward his setting, while our work is but half done, our task perhaps scarcely begun!

We fritter away days, weeks, months--not noticing how our one little opportunity of living in this world is being worn off, as the sea eats away a crumbling bank until its last shred is gone! We set slight value on time, forgetting that we have only a hand-breadth of it--and then comes eternity!

Many of us fail to appreciate the value of 'single days'. "A day is too short a space," we say, "that it cannot make much difference if one, just one, is wasted--or idled away in pleasure!" Yet the days are links in a chain, and if one link is broken--the chain is broken. In God's plan for our life--each little day has its own load of duty. How these lost days shame us--as they turn their reproachful eyes upon us, out of the irrevocable past!

Many people are wasteful of time. They fail to realize its value. They appear to have it in such abundance--that they dream it can never end. They do not know that a day lost--may mean misfortune or failure for them sometime in the future. They do not know that squandered hours, minutes spent in idleness--may cost them the true success of their life, bringing failure or disaster!

They should not make the mistake of imagining they have so much time--that they can afford to let days or hours or even minutes be wasted. They cannot afford to lose one golden minute of any day. We do not know what momentous issues, affecting all our future--are involved in any quietest hour of any common-place day. There is 'a time for everything'--but the time is short, and when it is gone, and the thing is not done--it never can be done!

What you make of your life--you must make in a few years at the most; for the human span is short--and any day may be your last one! Every day that passes--leaves life's margin a little less for each of us. Our allotment of time is ever shortening!

There are a great many things it is not worth our while to do. Some of us spend our days in poor trivialities which bless no one, and which will add no lustre to our crown.

Therefore, waste no opportunity! Squander no moment! There is just time enough for you to live your life well--if you spend every moment of it in earnest, faithful duty. One hour lost--will leave a flaw. A life thus lived in unbroken diligence and faithfulness, will have no regrets when the end comes.

Credit to: Grace Gems - Puritan Daily Devotionals

Quotes~

It is fatal to say that there is at least as good a case for "Christianity is probably true". Christianity is true or nothing is true. Christianity is in accord with logic because logic, to be logic, must be in accord with Christianity. Christianity is in accord with the facts of experience because these facts, if they...... would be experienced, better take refuge under the roof of Christianity. ~Van Til

"They who truly come to God for mercy, come as beggars, and not as creditors: they come for mere mercy, for sovereign grace, and not for anything that is due." ~Jonathan Edwards

The doctrines of grace humble a man without degrading him and exalt a man without inflating him. ~Charles Hodge

"I propose not only to operate on your heart so as to change your will, but also on your eyes so as to change your outlook. But wait a minute. No, I do not propose to operate at all. I myself cannot do anything of the sort. I am just mildly suggesting that you are perhaps dead, and perhaps blind, leaving you to think t...he matter over for yourself. If an operation is to be performed it must be performed by God Himself" ~Van Til

"If any of you should ask me for an epitome of the Christian religion, I should say that it is in one word - prayer. Live and die without prayer, and you will pray long enough when you get to hell." - C.H. Spurgeon

"No Man Is Greater Than His Prayer Life" -Leonard Ravenhill

"The Gospel is ours to proclaim, not edit." ~Dr. James R. White

"When a fish tries to be free on shore or when a bird tries to be free under water then they, as it were, do what man has done by trying to be free from the requirements of the love of God. Seeking for this false freedom the sinner cannot help himself. But God, the triune God in Christ, and by the Spirit in his soverei...gn grace, reaches down to man to set him free." ~Van Til

And Paul went into the synagogue and spoke boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading concerning the things of the kingdom of God (Acts 19:8).

"I am not what I ought to be. I am not what I want to be. I am not what I hope to be. But still, I am not what I used to be. And by the grace of God, I am what I am." ~John Newton

"God’s revelation is always authoritarian. This is true of his revelation in nature no less than of his revelation in Scripture. The truly scientific method, the method which alone can expect to make true progress in learning, is therefore such a method as seeks simply to think God’s thoughts after him." ~Van Til

"[The 'specialist' who treats facts as though perhaps God does not exist] ... is worse than a little boy who is busy arranging a basket of apples in the neighbor’s orchard unaware of the fact that the neighbor is watching him. The boy at least knows that he is stealing while the specialist does not." ~Van Til

..."Satan loves the gullible Christian, who likes sensations and the spectacular; he provides the spectacle and sensation, with which he can keep them off the true track."

"Shorter Chatechism #4: Q: What is God? A: God is a Spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable, in His being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness, and truth. "~WSC

Puritan Prayer - "The Trinity"

Three in One, One in Three,
God of my Salvation,
Heavenly Father, blessed Son, eternal Spirit,
I adore thee as one Being, one Essence,
one God in three distinct Persons,... See More
for bringing sinners to thy knowledge and to thy kingdom.
O Father, thou hast loved me and sent Jesus to redeem me;
O Jesus, thou hast loved me and assumed my nature,
shed thine own blood to wash away my sins,
wrought righteousness to cover my unworthiness;
O Holy Spirit, thou hast loved me and entered my heart, implanted there eternal life,
revealed to me the glories of Jesus.
Three Persons and one God, I bless and praise thee,
for love so unmerited, so unspeakable,
so wondrous, so mighty to save the lost
and raise them to glory.
O Father, I thank thee that in fullness of grace
thou hast given me to Jesus, to be his sheep, jewel, portion;
O Jesus, I thank thee that in fullness of grace thou hast
exhibited Jesus as my salvation,
implanted faith within me,
subdued my stubborn heart,
made me one with him forever.
O Father, thou art enthroned to hear my prayers,
O Jesus, thy hand is outstretched to take my petitions,
O Holy Spirit, thou art willing to help my
infirmities, to show me my need,
to supply words, to pray within me,
to strengthen me that I faint not in supplication.
O Triune God, who commandeth the universe,
thou hast commanded me to ask for those
things that concern thy kingdom and my soul.
Let me live and pray as one baptized into the
threefold Name.~

(The Valley of Vision, pp.2-3)

Benjamin Steventon vs Mark II.

Greetings everyone, for the benefit of my own readers, I have finally had a debate with an old childhood friend of mine. So I am having this debate on a Facebook wall, so I thought I'd post the exchange here as well.

Mark II

I"m starting at the end of a series of comments, so the first statement will be slightly vague. He makes the statement:

Benjamin Steventon
Yeah, shame on those "humanists" for trying to improve everyone's state of wellbeing.

He is being sarcastic.

Mark II

It is a shame since humanism is a false paradigm. For a humanist to try to "better" anything is inconsistent, arbitrary, and it flies in the face of a reductio ad absurdum, I will even argue meaningless. By what standard can they appeal to to even say "this is better or that is better"? If they point to a standard (or rule), it is merely a subjective standard, hence the arbitrariness of presuming upon people their own ideals. Ergo, they are merely moralistic for the sake of being moral, thus the reductio ad absurdum, because they must commit circular argumentation in order to support their foundation, which by their own definition of any ethical standard is firmly founded in midair. Without the existence of the Triune God of Scripture, to even reason about "well-being" is meaningless. Joe, the statement that you posted can be true depending upon the context. If in a temporal sense, then no. But if in an ultimate sense then it is true.

Benjamin Steventon
Most people, if their aim is to improve the human condition, do so in whatever way they see best... you do this too, Mark, though it seems to be inspired by dogmatic based faith. I think it's absurd to claim that no one can know "what's good" without the aid of ancient authors who claimed to know your triune god. It sounds more like you're trying to fit the universe into your box of thinking, getting tripped up by your assumed truths. I guess that's why you need faith - it fills in those gaps where evidences don't mesh well. I'm just glad that none of us are living in the world that you believe to exist. I'm not a humanist, but if ANYONE would resolve to improve their conditions (and the conditions of those around them), I think it should be praised, not ridiculed simply because their not on YOUR "religious team". ;)

Mark II
I'm not questioning by any means that people try to answer life's questions through their worldview. What I'm bringing into question is the validity and consistency of the specific presuppositions of the given worldview. I know that I answer questions from certain specific guidelines that under gird my understanding of the universe. Of course faith is intrinsically involved, its involved with every worldview in some way or another. Even the humanist has faith in his or her own capabilities of reasoning (i.e. that their functioning properly). But faith is only as good as that in which it is placed in. I never claimed that people can't know what is good. I said that apart from the Truine God of Scripture one cannot account for “good”. Scripture even teaches that we have a conscience, that the law of God is written upon our hearts, that it bears witness against us, and that we suppress the truth in unrighteousness. I'm not trying to fit anything into a box. The Christian should be the first to admit that God is the only one who is transcendent, and far above our capabilities of understanding. However, without God's revelation of Himself and His works, one is left up to epistemological and ethical relativism. So, I'm not quite sure how I'm getting “tripped up”. I don't hold to any sort of a “God of the gaps” theory. My propositions are far more bold and profound than that. I'm saying that apart from a revelatory epistemological standpoint it is meaningless to even assume that we're having a conversation. Your statement, “I'm just glad that none of us are living in the world that you believe to exist.” This does not surprise me in the least. Since I am theologically a Calvinist, this makes perfect sense to me. Because apart from God's enacting Grace, I would expect you to say that. It would make me more curious if you said otherwise. Your last statement was the most intriguing for me since it reveals the complete relativism to which you are subject to. But even then, your statement is a totalizing claim, it is one of your highest dogmatic ethical rules, that even yourself, has to take on a faith basis. Why should we praise those who try to better conditions? Why is praise a good thing? What does it even mean to say that it is a good thing? What is the point of reference that you appeal to by which you can even define what “better conditions” are? Even then, why should we follow it? I'm glad that none of us Christians have to live in this kind of world that you believe to exist. I never ridiculed anyone. All I was basically saying is that, it is foolish to follow a false worldview, and then I went on to point out why it is fallacious. If this is ridicule, then what are you doing to me?

Benjamin Steventon
You say that you were pointing out the flaws in their world view, but I still only see your slightly scriptural suppositions - no founded evidence. You're so busy telling us that all views (besides your's) are "relativistic", not having a set standard of truth, yet the very writings you cherish are riddled with moral inconsistencies... See the great Hebrew conquests and ask that relativistic question "is killing people right or wrong when god tells you too?" Thank goodness we're not still living in an era where your god still says it's okay to rid "promised lands" of their inhabitants at sword point. Right and wrong have always been recognizable to the majority of humanity; religion has to sell itself somehow, that's why you're told that you're no good and that you can't know well-being without it's view. I think such views, themselves, are a disease of mind upon the Earth. Don't misunderstand me, you do have truth within your possession, but it's a partial truth tainted by culture and perspective. Your thought processes aren't bad on this subject but I believe they need some refining, even within your own structure. Cheers!

Mark II
Depends on what you consider to be “evidence”. If you're asking me to show you evidence for Christianity from a merely naturalistic monistic worldview, that is absurd. That's the same as me asking a Theist to demonstrate that God does not exist. Evidence must be interpreted, there is no such thing as neutrality. So you'll have to explain what you mean by evidence. In response to the first thing you said, explain to me how my objections were wrong. What's wrong with having Scriptural suppositions? I believe the Bible to be true, so why would I argue from something else? Is there something “more true” than that which is theopneustos (God breathed)?

Ok, first off, if society merely recognizes “right” and “wrong”, where does this objective standard come from? If you're saying that “right” and “wrong” are determined by variegated societal cultures, and roughly 80% of the U.S. Claims to be Christian, then Christianity is therefore true. Right? Or is that wrong? How can we even know? So, basically, if a man brutally rapes a little girl, burns her with cigarettes, uses brutally various objects on her for his own pleasure, we cannot deem it as a evil act, he is merely being anti-social. How can you condemn war under this kind of social theory of ethics? You'll probably respond with the postmodern concept of “as long as it doesn't hurt anyone”. But if one culture deems is appropriate to hurt another, who are you to chide in? You'll just come off as some sort of western bigot. Also, is it absolutely wrong to hurt people? If so, then you hold to a dogmatic absolutist moral.

Concerning your “moral inconsistencies” of Scripture. By what standard do you judge an ethic of another culture? Why is what happened in the Hebrew Scriptures inconsistent, and why is that bad or wrong? You merely pick and choose your truth, why should I think that you're being consistent in your reading of the Bible? Since you hold to a “herd-mentality” ethical standard, why do you object to Israel's conquests? For Israel, it was right for them. Who do you think you are imposing your narrow minded morality onto another culture? Nowhere in the Bible does it say “do not kill.” If you're reading the KJV, then I can understand your issues. The Hebrew word that is translated as “kill” in per se the ten commandments, would be better translated as “murder”.

How can you determine what is a disease and what is not? If you have no objective standard by which you can properly judge something, explain to me how you can judge something subjectively and then impose it as objective. You must have a lot of faith in your own reasoning capabilities.

Benjamin Steventon
"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~Buddha

Mark II
Alrighty, upon that basis I will not believe what Buddha said. Just another Verification Principle that cannot stand up under its own weight.

Benjamin Steventon
Yep, I posted it there for you, and you alone. ;) You've been sufficiently entertaining. Thank you from all of us. =)

Mark II
Likewise

“THIS GENERATION” Teaching (from Matthew 24:32- 34) Changes for the 6th Time. See the April 15, 2010 Watchtower.

From the April 15, 2010 Watchtower article:

Holy Spirit’s Role in the Outworking of Jehovah’s Purpose

13 Third, holy spirit is at work in bringing Bible truths to light. (Prov. 4:18) This magazine has long been used by “the faithful and discreet slave” as the primary channel for dispensing increased light. (Matt. 24:45) For example, consider our understanding of those who make up “this generation” mentioned by Jesus. (Read Matthew 24:32- 34.) To what generation did Jesus refer? The article “Christ’s Presence—What Does It Mean to You?” explained that Jesus was referring, not to the wicked, but to his disciples, who were soon to be anointed with holy spirit. Jesus’ anointed followers, both in the first century and in our day, would be the ones who would not only see the sign but also discern its meaning—that Jesus “is near at the doors.”... See More

14 What does this explanation mean to us? Although we cannot measure the exact length of “this generation,” we do well to keep in mind several things about the word “generation”: It usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period; it is not excessively long; and it has an end. (Ex. 1:6) How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”? He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation. That generation had a beginning, and it surely will have an end. The fulfillment of the various features of the sign clearly indicate that the tribulation must be near. By maintaining your sense of urgency and keeping on the watch, you show that you are keeping up with advancing light and following the leadings of holy spirit.—Mark 13:37.

(italics ours)

Well, this change should buy out another 60 years or so before Armageddon may come! Such brilliant leaders of the Watchtower.

Credit to: www.freeminds.org

Q&A: I am a Christian, Is it OK to Date or Marry a Non-Christian?

I thought I might share an email that I received through our ministry. It is a very sensitive email, so I will be deleting the name of the individual. I'm posting this, as I do believe this topic is very very important amongst the Christian body today, that being marriage.

Hey, I'm currently dating a jehovah's witness, and I love him SO so so much but he just left me because he's getting baptized [or thinking about it] and he cannot be with a non-witness his family says. His brother already left the faith but his family has not shunned him and love his brother to death still. I don't understand this at all... I am a Christian and I chose to accept him before this all started and he told me he accepted me. I really don't understand how there can be NO way around this. I want to be with him, I love him, I'll accept his religion and beliefs, I am prepared to give our future kid's the belief system he is involved in... I will do anything but NOT convert. Please tell me that there is some way to get him back, we both love each other more than anything and don't want it to be this way but he says he has no choice. I feel as though a hole has been ripped through my chest bigger than the universe I stand on. I really would like to hope there's an answer out there other than a no. PLEASE help. I don't honestly believe God would turn someone away just because they choose to be with someone who is not a witness. God accepts everyone.
(name deleted)

(My response)

Greetings (name deleted),

I'm not quite sure where to start. You're obviously going through something that is very hard for you. But I am having a hard time knowing how to go about answering you. I've been thinking about your email all day. I am going to spend the next day or two thinking harder on this, so that I may answer you properly yet with love. I think I'm going to just have to be very straight forward with you and pray that you consider what I have to say. You don't know me, and email doesn't exactly help so that you can truly hear the concern that I have in my tone. So, please understand that I really do care for you. Take what I have to say and compare it with Scripture.

I'm going to start out with the principal Scripture, 2 Corinthians 6:14 “Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?” It is not God's will for you to be bound together (married or dating) with an unbeliever. Your boyfriend believes in a false God, false Gospel, and a false Christ. Unless your boyfriend repents and turns to the true Christ, he will be eternally damned.

You are willing to turn over your children to a false god just so that you can be with this guy? This is not love (name deleted), this is selfishness and idolatry, and plainly evil. Your love for Christ must be your priority and goal. If He was, you would be more concerned for His desire for your life then your own. Why? Because we as Christians recognize that Christ has purchased us with His blood upon Calvary. We are not our own, we belong to him, and we are to be continually renewing our minds to conform to His Word. Whole countries, civilizations, were destroyed by God in the Bible for their sacrificing of their children to false gods. We are to lead our children, and raise them in the fear and admonition of the one true holy Triune God. To not do so, is to betray fatherhood and motherhood. How can you and your husband lead your children in worship, united in faith, if you obviously don't worship the same God? How can you pray with them? How can you give them Godly council?

Marriage is for the purpose of sanctification, God uses marriage to principally conform us into the image of His own Son, a growing in holiness, a growing in unconditional love for each other. To be united and yet different. Christ does not bind himself with evil. God regenerates the individual, makes him alive to Christ. Then imputes Christ's own righteousness into the individual, making him pure in His sight. This is how we can be, as the Reformers taught, "Simul Justus et Peccator", “Righteous and at the same time a sinner.” For the Father sees Christ in us. Our relationship in marriage is to reflect our relationship with God. Your love and respect for your husband, must flow out of a right relationship with Christ. But how can you do this if you are willfully disobeying his command?

Of course you feel as though a hole has been ripped in you... your idol has been ripped from you. Since your life hasn't been rooted in Christ, the one who will never leave you nor forsake you. You have rooted your life in something that is passing and will pass away. You need to examine your life and repent, turn from your sin and look to Christ, and his payment for sin. These are the consequences of not heeding Scripture. (name deleted), God does not except everyone. This is very plain in Scripture. Place your whole trust in Jesus not an unregenerate man. Please do not take this letter to be a personal attack. That is not my desire. I truly do care. I feel absolutely horrible for your situation. But I cannot but stand on Scripture, I have nothing else. If you have any more questions please ask.
Mark II

(Further Correspondence)

Welll [sic], first of all I really appreciate your response. I DO love him, just the fact that I would give up what I believe for a guy DOES show that I love someone. Anyway, I guess I feel bad now because all you typed was for nothing. Turns out that it was a false reason and he actually broke up with me because he left me for my friend and used his religion as a cop out. Anyway, sorry for wasting your time. But thank you very much for your response.

(My response)

Hey Name Deleted, thanks for the update. I'm sorry that you're going through so much. My previous email was not questioning whether you loved him or not. I do not doubt that you love him. That is not the issue. The fact that you'd be willing to give up what you believe, just merely demonstrates that you do not truly believe it to be true. If Christ is not your all, then he is nothing. Jesus said, "you are either for me or against me". My question to you is, are you for Him? 1 John 2:19 says, "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us." If you were to leave Christ for a man, this would demonstrate this verse, specifically that you are not a true Christian, but a false professor. So you need to take your life into account and to make sure that you are truly in the faith. I am really concerned for your spirit (name deleted). Your eternal life or damnation isn't something to be played with for just a mere boyfriend. Repent of your idolatry. You have turned to another god, you have turned to serve the creature instead of the Creature. That may be love for this man, but it is an evil love, since it is not a love that is in subjection to Christ. I hope you seriously think about what I am saying. Dig into the Word of God and either submit to it or leave it. Do not play with it as if you could pick and choose which parts. I will be praying for you.

Soli Deo Gloria,
Mark II

It is the student who must learn the lesson! ~ J. R. Miller

"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling" Philippians 2:12-13

People sometimes think that salvation imparts . . .
godly virtues,
fine qualities of Christian character,
lovely traits of disposition, and
elements of spiritual beauty--
without any cost or effort to the believer himself!

Christ's followers are transformed--old things pass away, and all things become new. Those who believe in Him--are fashioned into His image. But these blessings do not come easily. The heavenly graces are not put into our life--as one might hang up lovely pictures on the walls to adorn a home! They must be wrought into our life in a sense, by our own hands. We must work out our own salvation, although it is God who works in us, both to will and to work.

For example, patience is not put into anyone's life--as one brings in a piece of new furniture. You cannot merely receive patience as a gift from God. Patience is a lesson to be learned--through long and watchful self-discipline. Christ is the teacher--but you are the student, and it is the student who must learn the lesson! Not even Christ will learn it for you--to spare you the effort. Nor can it be made an easy lesson for you. It costs to grow patient, and you must pay the price yourself!

The same is true of all the elements of a godly and worthy character.

We are always at school in this world. God is teaching us the things we need to learn. The lessons are not easy--sometimes they are very hard! But the hardest lessons are the best--for they bring out in us the finest qualities, if only we learn them well.

Those, therefore, who find themselves in what may seem adverse conditions, compelled to face hardship, endure opposition, and pass through struggle--should quietly accept the responsibility; and, trusting in Christ for guidance and strength, go firmly and courageously forward, conscious that they have now an opportunity to grow strong, and develop in themselves the qualities of worthy and noble character!

Credit to: Grace Gems-Daily Puritan Devotionals

Christians Strike Again!~

I work with a ministry that is geared towards witnessing to Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. We just got a hate mail that made me scratch my head and laugh at the same time. So I thought I'd post the correspondences here. In my years of ministry, I have found, that the hardest people to minister to are the professed Christians. I think you'll see whyDe hate mails de hate mails oh oh de hate mails:

WARNING: PG-13 Language

(first by: Landon Mariano)
why show the discrepancies only in mormonism? why not fully practice what you preach and show he inaccuracies in Judaism, Islam, Taoism, Catholicism, and all the sects of christianity along with all religions? Why not examine your own religion? Don't half ass the job you have set out to do, complete it. Don't be ignorant assholes, half of what you claim is incorrect about mormonism is nothing but personal belief with very little substantiating evidence. I'm not even a mormon, but am a devout Christian, and I am appalled at the way you single out a religion, point out inaccuracies that could and are found in EVERY religion, and claim your elitist point of view is correct. you expect people to listen to what you have written and see the true Jesus, and i understand your fervor and want to do so, but why single out mormonism when there are thousands or religions that hold views that serve as an antithesis to yours? Don't be ignorant in claiming you aren't mormon bashing. Ignorant f@#*&$% pricks.
(I replaced the "f" word)

(my reply)
Unless you actually show some respect, self-control, and actually substantiate your claims this will be the end of any kind of correspondence. Our website never displays the kind of rudeness that your email demonstrated. You are a hypocrite. Your email by far did not demonstrate any kind of "christian" humility, patience, kindness, long-suffering, etc. I highly recommend that you reflect upon yourself and seriously reflect upon your words. You would have never talked to a Mormon that way, then why talk to professed believers that way? You rebuked us for our evaluation of Mormonism and then have the audacity to evaluate us? Inconsistency maybe? You charged us for not writing against all the other sects and religions... if we did... you'd probably call us pricks for that too. Also, how do you know that we don't study those religions? TELL ME! How do you know? I personally study L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology, Mary Baker Eddy and Christian Science, Muhammad and Islam, Talmud and Judaism, Sun Myung Moon and the Moonies, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and the Hare-Krsna (ISKON), Gautama Buddha and Buddhism, I also study Hinduism, Atheism, Skepticism, Agnosticism, etc. etc. etc. Yes, I also critique those within "Christianity". I have written against Rick Warren, "The Shack", Prosperity Doctrine, Arminianism, Seeker Sensitivity, the ELCA, etc. etc. etc. So your objection was made out of an extreme ignorance.

Also, you should spend more time on our website. It would help you so that you can critique us properly. We have responses to your objections on our website already, whaddayaknow. We also have links to other ministries that critique other religions, cults, and philosophies.

By the way, we don't only write against Mormonism! We have a whole website on the Jehovah's Witnesses too! You obviously have never fully studied another religion or worldview and written why its wrong. It can take a life-time. Why do we write against Mormonism and the Jehovah's Witnesses? Because first, God called us to. Also, Scripture commands us to examine everything and hold fast to that which is true, to be prepared to give a reason for the hope that is in us, and to contend earnestly for the faith (I'm quoting Scripture fyi). Also, Mormonism and the JWs teach a false Gospel. We desire to see Mormons and JWs come to a saving knowledge of the Jesus of the Bible. So we're not "half-assing" the job, you are, by not knowing enough about us to make a proper objection.

Jesus, Paul, and John spoke out against Judaism, Gnosticism, Sadduseeism, and a form of Preterism, etc. Why? For the protection of the Christians, so that the Christians wouldn't fall into heresy, to rebuke falsehood, and to evangelize the lost.

Half of what we claim about Mormonism is false??? We have very little substantiating evidence? PLEASE! I'm so glad that you demonstrated this claim with with so MUCH evidence... And I'm glad that your email was made out of so much knowledge of us.

You're a devout Christian? I would have never guessed by the character you portrayed in your email. Unless you change the tone of your writing, the words that you use, and the way you conduct yourself, we will no longer be writing to you.

Mark II

(Landon's reply that just arrived two days ago)
I would be honored if I would no longer be communicating with you. You're a disgrace
and your mannerisms and claims are intolerant and ignorant. And yes, I would talk to
a mormom like that. I would talk to anyone who made such a pathetic and unwarranted
website as yours. And yes you are all pricks. Everyone of you. Go f&%$ yourselves.
Thank you for your time and god bless
(I again replaced the "f"word)